I thought that freedom can only be defined as endless choice & I only listen to the logic of the loudest voice. This world will be shaken by a whisper
I was watching this documentary the other night about a woman who was from Toronto and she was trying to find her islamic faith. By the end of the documentary she just couldn't say that she was truly a muslim...because of the many things this religion required of her and she thought they were weird and unfair practices for women. If she had grown up in the Middle East, she wouldn't have thought anything weird or unfair about these practices..and she would have probably enjoyed wearing the hijab. Who knows!
I started to think about whether any of us truly make our own decisions in society and if the reason we are making certain decisions is because we truly believe in the choices we are making...or whether we are just conforming to the norms of the society we live in. Obviously there are many women who were born and raised in North America, however, they still wear the hijab. The veil is not a uniquely Islamic convention; the practice has a long history in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Catholic nuns engage in the practice, of course, and there are several references to the practice in both the Old and New Testaments (King James Version). Ironically, the representation of veiling in the Bible is much more problematic than those in the Qur'an or the Hadith, because the Judeo-Christian sources imply that women should be covered because of their inherent inferiority. I mean, is it wrong of me to say that these women are missing out on life? on opportunities? If they think they have everything they've ever needed...then who am I to say I am a woman with many more opportunities...when I am constantly searching for so many things in my life? Are these women just pretending to be happy? Pretending that they enjoy this life they are forced to live? Among Muslim women, the debate about hijab takes many forms. Many believe that the veil is a way to secure personal liberty in a world that objectifies women. Several women have argued that hijab allows them freedom of movement and control of their bodies. Understood in such terms, hijab protects women from the male gaze and allows them to become autonomous subjects. Others have argued that the veil only provides the illusion of protection and serves to absolve men of the responsibility for controlling their behavior.
My main question is...are we just merely conditioned by our society? Why do I have the opinions I do and why do those women have the opinions they do? Do we really have free choice? Or are we simply influenced by the society we live in?
9 Comments:
Scientist/Logician says:
thoughts and actions are simply sequences of discharges in the brain. The brain is a finite-size object and can thus have a finite number of configurations, states, and actions. The brain is essentially a machine, and everything that you are now is just a product of your history.
Sartre says: Man is condemned to be free. ("Condemned" in that you are held responsible for everything you do. e.g. You're unhappy with life because you lead an unhappy life.)
What do people who believe in Time Travel think? If they "see" the future, does this mean the future is already written? In the "Back to the Future" movies, the "Doc" claims that you can shape your future however you want... but does that make sense if you just observed your future to already be something?
Those who believe in a "timeless" God: believe God knows what you are doing, what you will do, what will become of you. Then what the heck is the point of him creating people and "testing" their devotion to him? If God knows your future, do you have any control over your fate?
When I speak about free will...I will never use God as part of my claims...I hate hiding behind God when making an argument...since God is not in front of our faces...we can not speak on behalf of him (if he so exists). So, this question is asking whether we are free to make our own choices (not because God is timeless or whatever), but whether or not we actually have the capabilities to make our own choices...or if we are unknowingly conditioned by our environment.
Great Question Annie… I’ve been here what, a week, and you have already hit upon two of my favourite topics!
One of the things that I believe in and that I hold firmly too is the idea that humans have freewill. I think it is one of the properties (along with rationality) that make us distinct from other animals. I think there are real reasons why human beings actually have the ability to choose between doing X or doing Y at any given moment. Maybe I’ll blog about that sometime. But for now… I also think that we are conditioned by our society. Would I currently be a Christian if I had not grown up in a Christian home, gone to church every Sunday, etc? I might be, but the chances are significantly less. And of course they are even less if I grew up in a Muslim country. Not too long ago, my roommate was reading a book and led a discussion between us on the roles environment played on children. The book The Nurture Assumption by Judith Rich Harris, explains how children respond more to their peers than they do to their parents. The psychological study shows that if children from one immigrant background come to Canada or the United States and learn English, they will often come out with the accent of that of their peers, and not the accent of their parents, who are also learning English. So if a Russian is learning English with a group of Spanish speakers, she is more likely to speak English with a Spanish accent than a Russian accent. I think this is powerful evidence for societal influence on behaviour and thought patterns. That being said, I do not think that society shaped every single decision that we make. There is a certain sense in which any decision I make is truly my decision. I’m really interested in the connection between moral responsibility and freewill, and a friend of mine will be leading a discussion group on that at the end of Jan, so I will report back more on what I think after that… or maybe I’ll post something on my own blog. Haha..
In response to the anonymous commenter on the belief in a timeless God: without spending too much time on it here, I want to quickly say that its important not to conflate knowledge with cause. Just because God has knowledge of an event before it occurs does not mean that he causes it to occur. It is still possible to say that someone has freewill and that God knows the future. For a much better explanation than I can give (albeit, not entirely without faults) read Chapter 3 of Book Four of C.S. Lewis’ classic, Mere ChristianityThat being said, I’m entirely with Annie in terms of appealing to God. I believe in God, but I believe that if my belief in God is rational, it ought to be supported by reasonable evidence in the actual world, as well as by philosophical and scientific arguments. I think they call this kind of person an Evidentialist, but don’t quote me on it! ;)
Peter
Spider Man,
hehe..I'm kidding Mikey..I know..you are going to kill me!
Your posting was good...so was Peter's. However, even those people that choose to live differently in a society that expects differently of them (for example, a lesbian who chooses to practice islam somehow...vs. another muslim lesbian who hides it)...Why are these 2 lesbian women (both muslims) differnt from each other? What has ultimately made the other former lesbian expose herself as a lesbian in her muslim community? Was it her upbringing? Obviously, if we look at both of their backgrounds (education, friends, family, location)...it could be said that they weren't freely choosing their lifestyle, but it might have been due to the fact that each other their experiences were different..the people they met were different...etc.
My dad and I have stayed up late many MANY times debating over some political issue (he is a hardcore conservative by the way)...and he is always so surprised that I have never come to believe in the same things he has (i mean, okay, there are some things we agree on...like the destruction of family structure..that will make for another interesting posting one day). He has even claimed that my school has indoctrinated me!!! I'm thinking: have they? even though my professors have always encouraged free thought and opinion. I just don't know...I'd like to think that I have come to believe in what I do just because I have taken the time to rationalize the idea in my head for a while. Hmm...
cheers,
annie!
I will wade in on this rather sticky topic briefly... it's far too interesting...
I would say that of course we all have free will, but that our free will is exercised withing the boundaries of the system we are brought up in. If there were no free will, then we would all get along perfectly in our own societies. Do you know of a society free of murder, theft, violence, disagreement? I can't think of too many, in spite of the fact that almost all societies stress the need for peaceful co-existence with all other members of the society.
The reason such abarations from the "norm" exist is because of free will, as employed by everyone in that group. Most of us will obey the rules in varying forms, but there are some who will pretty do whatever it is that they feel is right for them.
If I may use myself as an example...
I was born and raised as a Catholic. I practice all the outside conventions of the religion (going to church when required, partaking of certain sacraments on a regular basis, following a particular code of conduct), but I must confess that I do not practice "Catholic behaviour" to the degree which is demanded by the Church itself. I disagree on Church policy regarding women, marriage, children, homosexuals, and myriad other topics. I have thought about it quite a bit, and if I hadn't been born a Catholic, I *certainly* wouldn't become one. Hell, if I were forced to pick a religion, I would probably choose the Catholic arch-enemy, Anglicanism. Given my skeptical nature, I probably wouldn't pick one at all... But that's another topic for another time. Needless to say, on paper, and mostly in my head, I'm still Catholic, despite my disagreements with the institution in general.
We are creatures of independent thought, who draw together to agree upon social norms to ensure social stability. Of course we are influenced by our family, community, and society. However, our response to that conditioning is directed entirely by our free will, whether to obey or disobey.
I apologize if I rambled on too long...it is a failing of mine...
-alouzon
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Hey Alouzen (Colleen),
You said: "However, our response to that conditioning is directed entirely by our free will, whether to obey or disobey." Isn't it the other way around though? A person's decision may be limited depending on the society they grew up in and the way they were conditioned by this society may direct their "free will." Don't you think that there are different definitions of freedom according to different societies? And if so, are we really using our free will then?
Hey Alouzen (Colleen),
You said: "However, our response to that conditioning is directed entirely by our free will, whether to obey or disobey." Isn't it the other way around though? A person's decision may be limited depending on the society they grew up in and the way they were conditioned by this society may direct their "free will." Don't you think that there are different definitions of freedom according to different societies? And if so, are we really using our free will then?
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